InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "hey! theres two of you! whoa!!"

brandi should wrap herself in bubble wrap (kitten_patronus) wrote,
@ 2008-07-07 16:04:00

plot contrivances and JKR
So, I'm re-reading CoS, and I was talking to Khushi and the whole "can't use magic at home over the summer hols" thing came up, which led to us discussing all the plot contrivances in the HP books.

Contrivance the first, which led to this discussion: Students are not allowed to use magic at home over the hols (according to the Decree for the Reasonable Restriction of Underage Sorcery, 1875, Paragraph C). But ... why? Okay, it makes sense for muggleborn kids, or those who otherwise live in a muggle environment when home for the hols (like Harry), but what about the pureblood kids (as well as those half-bloods who grew up in the wizarding world)? They were using magic, intentionally or not, prior to starting school (Fred turned Ron's teddy bear into a spider because Ron broke Fred's toy broomstick), and suddenly they're not allowed to anymore during the summer? And what about the other hols when kids go home? When they go home for Christmas hols, are they allowed to use magic then?

And how do they know if it was an underage wizard using the magic, especially in a wizarding home? For example, Harry got the warning from Mafalda, even though it was Dobby using the magic. Which leads me to believe that the ministry just knows that magic has been used in that area, and since he's the only wizard, clearly it had to be him. Does that mean that kids in wizarding families can get away with using magic at home over the hols, because the Ministry will just assume that it's either an adult or a not-at-Hogwarts-yet child? And what about accidents? Harry re-grew his hair without realizing he was using magic, when he was younger. Does this mean that if Petunia chopped all his hair off, he wouldn't be able to accidentally grow it back without the Ministry cracking down on him?

Also, I'd like to note that the uses of magic outside of school in the movies (Hermione fixing Harry's glasses in SS and CoS, as well as Harry practicing his wand work under the covers) were only in the movies, and not in the books, so far as I've seen in my re-reads (except for Ron trying to turn Scabbers yellow, but this was also before he was officially a student, since term hadn't started yet, and he didn't have the letter telling him not to use magic; plus, it wasn't even a real spell, so maybe that didn't count). In fact, nobody was shown to be fixing Harry's glasses in the first book, and Mr. Weasley fixed them in the second book, after Harry broke them when he got out of the Floo on Knockturn, instead of Diagon.

Contrivance the second: Hogwarts sent Harry fifty billion owls in those days leading up to his birthday and Hagrid showing up and giving Dudley a pig's tail. Does Hogwarts do this to every kid who doesn't respond to their owl right away? While the kids growing up in wizarding households have better access to owls to send their reply, and they know what Hogwarts is, what about muggleborn kids, or kids like Harry who live in the muggle world and don't have access to an owl to send their reply, or they have no idea what Hogwarts is? Do the owls flood their houses with letters, too? And how do parents of muggleborn kids know that this whole "you've been accepted to Hogwarts" thing isn't just some weird hoax?

I would think that muggleborn kids should have their letters hand-delivered by a representative of the school, who can explain to the family that their child is a witch or wizard, and tell them about the wizarding world and Hogwarts, and bring with them an owl with which the student can send their reply. Perhaps the representative in question would be cleared by the ministry to show a small display of magic to the muggle family, so as to prove that he or she isn't making this all up. But who would these representatives be? Hagrid came to fetch Harry, but he would be a scary figure for ANYONE to suddenly encounter if they know nothing about the wizarding world -- Harry was supposed to at least know about it, since Dumbledore had left a letter for the Dursleys -- so would it be one of the Heads of House? Would there be temp positions for recent graduates of Hogwarts, hired for that one summer to take the Hogwarts acceptance letters to new muggleborn students and explain everything to them? Would it just be ministry personnel?

I'd also assume that this person who comes to explain things to these muggleborn students would also take them to London and show them the Leaky Cauldron and explain how to get into Diagon Alley. (Which also raises the question of how muggleborn kids get into Diagon for buying their things for second - seventh year, if they're not allowed to use magic; do they have to ask someone in the Leaky Cauldron to please let them into the Alley?) And what about getting the muggleborn students onto Platform 9 3/4 on September first? Hagrid didn't tell Harry about that, he was just really lucky that the Weasleys were there.

Discuss. :D

(Post a new comment)

lolo
2008-07-07 09:38 pm UTC (link)

And how do they know if it was an underage wizard using the magic, especially in a wizarding home?

They don't. It is explained in one of the books, not sure which, that it's a bit of an honor system. That is, the parents of witches and wizards are expected to discipline their children if they use magic at home when it comes to families that aren't Muggleborn. A child in a wizarding home can, therefore, get away with using magic over the Hols, so long as the parent's don't catch them and/or don't punish them for it.

Hogwarts sent Harry fifty billion owls in those days leading up to his birthday and Hagrid showing up and giving Dudley a pig's tail. Doubt it, but I can't prove it from the books. I was under the impression that Hogwarts did this with Harry because Harry happened to be who he was. Harry Potter. It was more crucial for him to go to Hogwarts and train as a Wizard than your average muggleborn... Harry's life could be at risk (Voldieshorts in the picture or no, he had enough surviving lunatic followers, yeah?) if he didn't train in order to protect himself. Also, Petunia and Vernon knew about Hogwarts, the Wizarding world, who Harry's parents were, how they died, and the condition of his stay (AKA that he'd be attending Hogwarts when he turned 11). Other Muggleborn's parents don't have this prior knowledge to the wizarding world/school/etc. So it was different with him, you know?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

kitten_patronus
2008-07-07 09:57 pm UTC (link)

They don't. It is explained in one of the books, not sure which, that it's a bit of an honor system. That is, the parents of witches and wizards are expected to discipline their children if they use magic at home when it comes to families that aren't Muggleborn. A child in a wizarding home can, therefore, get away with using magic over the Hols, so long as the parent's don't catch them and/or don't punish them for it.

I'll have to keep an eye out for that on my re-reads, but that's what I figured. That really doesn't make it fair for the muggleborn kids, or those living with muggle relatives, then.

Doubt it, but I can't prove it from the books.

Okay, I was overexaggerating a bit with that (actually, I have the book here and counted it up. One on Tuesday, one on Wednesday, three on Thursday, "no less than twelve" on Friday, twenty-four on Saturday, "thirty or forty" on Sunday, and "about an 'undred" on Monday, which adds up to 171 - 181 letters, assuming that the "thirty or forty" that came down the chimney on Sunday were the only ones that he received that day, or if those were the only ones he saw, and the ones pelting the door were those same thirty or forty, and that more didn't then come down the chimney; also going with "twelve" for Friday, though there may have been more), but the sentiment remains that same that Hogwarts was bombarding the Dursley houeshold with letters. The reasoning that it's HARRY POTTER and that he and his family should have known about Hogwarts and all that makes sense, which is what I was figuring. But it doesn't explain why, instead of sending hundreds of letters to him, they didn't just send a representative of the school to him after the second letter went unreceived; did they ever stop to consider that maybe Harry didn't have an owl to send a reply with?

I'd also still like to know what they do with normal muggleborn kids.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

bollywood
2008-07-07 10:38 pm UTC (link)

In DH and HBP we see that people are generally sent to meet with the students that are, as far as can be told, 'Muggleborn' -- Dumbledore goes to see Tom Riddle, and Severus suggests that someone from Hogwarts will come to see Lily. I think that the number of letters was either an inconsistency of JKR (what, noooo never!) or Dumbledore trying to be funny. He probably always planned on sending Hagrid along.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kitten_patronus 2008-07-07 10:49 pm UTC (link)
	>> shhhhh, I've only read those ones once each. JKR? Inconsistent? NEVER! She is as consistent as ... something very consistent. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	bollywood 2008-07-07 10:51 pm UTC (link)
	Lol its ok. I've just studied them too much :x its quite sad, really. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	poems 2008-07-08 04:34 am UTC (link)
	And even though it's not canon at ALL, on the Leaky Podcast with JKR she sets up a whole little ~muggle liason office~ at Hogwarts, which suggests there really would be designated people whose jobs it is to make the transition understandable/easier. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	pigs_in_space 2008-07-07 11:15 pm UTC (link)
	I've always thought the no-magic-over-hols rule was stupid. How are they supposed to practice what they learned with it? It would be like Muggle school, where students supposedly lose 20% of the knowledge the learned the year before. (Reply to this)

hafren
2008-07-08 03:23 am UTC (link)

Okay, so I had this whole cool reply typed out at work, and then the internet at the college died - really rather odd - but here you are.

As I recall, Severus actually tells Lily in DH that someone from Hogwarts will deliver her letter – it won’t come by owl like his will – cause she’s Muggleborn. I suppose the only thing that makes sense is that Petunia did know about witchcraft and wizardry, and Harry wasn’t Muggleborn, even though HE didn’t know anything about it. I’m not certain why, after the first owl wasn’t answered, Dumbledore wouldn’t just go himself. It kind of seems to me that he might, but then Dumbledore’s mind (much like JKR’s) is often a mystery.

And of course the magic outside of Hogwarts has always irked me. Eventually I’ve come to the belief that the only thing the Ministry can tell is that magic has been performed. The Ministry was unable to differentiate between Harry’s magic and Dobby’s magic, for instance.

The statute is therefore definitely weighted in favour of those who already are magical, and you could even suggest (oh, gosh, my Carlotta Pinkstone is showing) that you’re hurting Muggleborns by the statute, because students who are from magical families could (in theory) practice charms and spells all summer long under the supervision of their parents or older siblings, and the Ministry wouldn’t be able to tell. This has always been my reading of the underage statute & the Ministry’s enforcing of it, but I could be wrong.

I’ve kind of struggled with this lots for Sev, who is stated as having come to Hogwarts knowing more dark hexes than most seventh years – and while Sirius could be exaggerating (what? Sirius? Exaggerate? Never!) – the point remains that he obviously came knowing magic. The only thing I can figure is that Eileen taught him herself, or didn’t teach him herself, but didn’t keep him from doing magic either. And I doubt that changed much when he went home for the summer.

(Reply to this)

sira_ne_biber
2008-07-08 10:38 pm UTC (link)

Re underage magic: I don't think unintentional magic counts because it isn't done with a wand - I imagine wand magic (and Dobby's magic) is actually more focused or there's be a way to tell. And actually, my poor Sylvie Fawcett - her parents both work in the Ministry and they told whoever it is that watches the underage magic to let them know if magic was going on in their house during their work hours because it was underage. I imagine hers aren't the only parents who actually take that rule seriously although I'm sure there are some that let their kids do whatever they want.

Re Muggle-borns: My Muggle-born characters got their letters delivered from people in the Muggle Relations department of the Ministry. Didn't it say somewhere that there's a book that records down the name of every single wizard born - they should be able to look at the names written between September and August in a given year and set those letters aside for people from the Ministry to deliver. Harry could have easily been overlooked because he's half-blood, not Muggle-born.

And that's all I have.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

legendarcy
2008-07-10 01:20 pm UTC (link)

Didn't it say somewhere that there's a book that records down the name of every single wizard born

See I'm not sure about that. Both DD and Hagrid mention that a wizard (Tom and Harry respectively) had had their name down for Hogwarts since they were born. It could just be a saying, which is what I thought at first, just cos I remembered only Hagrid having said it. But in my reread, I found that DD said it to Tom when he went to the orphanage. But if that's true, and if all wizards have their names down, then people would know their kids were Squibs, cos their names wouldn't be written down. BUT Neville specifically says that his fam thought he was a Squib. So that leads me to believe that that book is a fanon invention rather than canon.

And if that's true, that their names are down there and anyone can read them, then what's to stop hardcore purebloods from getting rid of their Squib offsrping. Like in China or whatevs where everyone wants boys? And get abortions if they're pregnant with girls (that totally might be internet lore and not true at all but you get what I mean lol).

As for Harry, I think he was special in terms of getting his owl cos of who he was. But I think that GENERALLY, someone MUST come and explain wtf is going on.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

sira_ne_biber
2008-07-10 11:05 pm UTC (link)

Well, the time we had the book play a major goal in one of our games, it was one of those things that was very well protected and only certain people had access to even see it. I doubt the Ministry or whoever owned it would just let any family ask about their kid when they were born. It would be too powerful to be public knowledge.

And I don't see how they could know who was a Muggle-born if there wasn't something like that.

(Reply to this) (Parent)